grow up and get with the kids

Sometimes I get so homesick for Britain I could cry, but other times I am so grateful to live in Portugal I could cry, too.  Right now, it’s the latter.

I am trying to plan some days away in Britain.  As well as sleeping, getting around and being entertained by things, this will involve *eating*.

There will be me, him and the girls.  The girls are what are commonly known as “children”.

This time, we won’t be doing London, we will be doing elsewhere and the sticks (i.e. my homeland), so we can’t rely on stumbling into places to eat when everywhere else is full or closed.  Therefore, this is going to require forward planning, list making and booking, to avoid those horrendous episodes when everyone is hungry, it’s past nine o’clock and there isn’t an M&S Simply Food within loud-weeping distance.

I’ve been looking at restaurants and gastro-pubs available in the evenings.  I’ve been looking at their websites and briefly at reviews (although I always discount the reviews on all the sites where reviews are open to *the general public*, as the people who write them are bound to be either bitter, nasty little people who hate everything and want to bring everyone down with them, or simpletons who think that shoddy rubbish is “brilliant!”).

Something I keep seeing in relation to eating places is “Children welcome! (except for the evenings)”.

WTF?

That is why I’m having a “thank god I live in Portugal” moment.  When you have kids in Portugal, you are welcome. Full stop.  There are no codicils on the chalk boards saying “yeah, but the kid can sod off.  Why isn’t it in bed?”, there are no stuck up waitresses in black trousers and a stiff starched white shirt looking down their noses at you with your *snotty child* (I really never understand how waiting staff have the gall to look down their noses at me…. I’m paying THEM to wait on ME… and, before you say it, yes, I HAVE been a waitress, and a bloody good one too).  Only in the Algarve will you find “kids’ menus” filled with low grade rubbish, microwaveable mini-pizzas, chicken nuggets and ketchup or over-cooked pasta.   The kids eat what we eat, and there’s no shame in ordering one dish and splitting it between them… it’s entirely normal. Kids eat WHEN we eat too, WITH US.  None of this nursery food, nursery hours nonsense.  What on earth good is that doing anybody?

In Portugal, kids don’t go to bed at stupid o’clock.  It’s your own damn fault that your kids wake you up at five in the morning… what do you expect if you put them to bed at seven?  In Portugal, I can take my kids out shopping late at night at weekends, take them to dinner, take them to family parties, whether they’re 12 years or 12 days old and no-one will bat an eyelid.

Why do children have to be treated differently in Britain, still?  I don’t want a “kids’ menu” with crayons and dreadful food and nor do my kids.  I don’t need to take them to a themed children’s restaurant, like the awful Rainforest Café, for them to be interested in the food and eat it.  I don’t want to take them to “mother and child” friendly cafés, where everyone is a middle class mimsy-idiot, desperate not to have the other mothers know that last night little Gaspar ate fish fingers, FRIED, with KETCHUP, with not a raw carrot in sight.  I don’t want to feel like I have to leave a gastro-pub or restaurant in the middle of nowhere, because it’s six o’clock, child curfew is in force and the child catcher is coming out with his ribbon festooned child-trap on wheels.  It is stupid.  I’m looking at our having to eat dinner at six o’clock in the evening in at least one of the places we’re headed, two nights on the trot.

I know that there are some of you reading this, shaking your head, thinking “I’m glad there are no kids out in the evenings, the little bastards don’t know how to behave, they won’t be quiet, they annoy everyone”… WHY DO YOU THINK THAT IS, THEN?  Because the poor little beggars aren’t allowed out is why.  They’ve never been allowed to get used to eating out, unless there’s a jungle gym and a set of crayons to stick up their nose.  They’re wingey because they’re not used to being allowed to stay up past some draconian hour.  I wish you could see our (all of our, I mean) kids here, in the summer, at the town festas… up till midnight, having a fantastic time, running about, being funny, entertaining themselves, and not being whiny pains in the arse…. they’re made of hardier stuff.

I adore taking my girls to Britain once or twice a year, it’s their other home…. but travelling round the place is always made so difficult because of the nonsensical, Victorian ideal that past seven o’clock, children don’t exist.

Well, mine DO exist.

Comments from the old site:

stephen_m		It’s the same in Italy with kids – they’re accepted in adult circles. Loved.
asta		Come to Quebec. Kids everywhere at all times. How else will they learn how to behave?   Wait. That’s not quite right. I can tell when kids have been brought up on a strict diet of TV, DS, texting and food that comes wrapped in branded paper products. Their parents are the oblivious ones checking their email and and talking about how the education system isn’t meeting  six-year-old Chantal’s career path needs, while Chantal slides beneath the table, takes off her shoes and throws them at passing waiters.   But children who go regularly to restaurants with real cutlery, eat real meals, and stay seated. Whining begins only after self-amusement options have been exhausted and the adults have drifted into totally boring conversations about  portfolios, infrastructure and insurance.   They’re still welcome.
João		I was once very surprised watching an episode of Nigella and seeing her put her children to bed with the sun still up in the sky. It didn’t seem possible to me….well now I know
Nuno Coelho		Just my two cents – in Portugal, there’s no shame in ordering a dish an splitting it between any two or more people, whether they’re kids or adults. This is true in ANY restaurant, no matter how upscale it is. It’s everyone’s understanding that it is your food, you are paying for it, and you can do whatever you want with it, short of throwing it at the waiter. Don’t take my word for it – next time you’re not too hungry, try ordering a dish for two – they’ll bring you an extra plate, and this will be considered perfectly normal. As it should!   Have a nice trip to Britain. But DO come back!
lucy		Absolutely. We often do that… More often still, the kids eat a dose each and we adults share one! I’ll be back!
Juno		ah Lucy i could go to town on this issue, i hate this too…. they didn’t allow us to take our kid in my husband’s job annual staff party, well, they can sod off as he/we never went. when i was living in London i used to love going to Estrela Bar in Stockwell and watch the Portuguese families sitting eating their petiscos while their kids ran around in the pavement playing, whatever time it was. same in spanish fiestas in Andalucia and these went well over midnight! the problem, in England (i think) resides in the fact that the culture is not just obsessed with rules but also quite segregated (by sex, age, class, etc.).
Carla		Oh goodness yes. I don’t want to raise mine in the British way, but it will be hard… one thing for sure – no different menu and they eat what we give them, and if they don’t like it tough, i won’t cook different things…
C̩lia		I discovered this the hard way when I was taking care of children and studying English in South England. People were really angry when I talked about the way children were welcomed in every place in Portugal, including restaurants at dinner time. But the most shocking thing was to discover the way dogs were so warmly welcomed everywhere in that city Рmore than children.
Ron		What a load of tosh! Kids need to grow and they do that whilst they sleep. Only irresponsible adults keep their kids up so they can enjoy a social life. I have lost count of holidays I have been on where parents drag their small kids round with them from bar to restaurant late at night and disturb other diners because their kids are tired and grumpy!!  Then the morning after round the pool the kids make the parents life hell… because guess what!!! They are tired!!!! The average 8 year old kid needs between 9.5 and 11.5 hours sleep per night . Younger children need more! The Portuguese culture  seems to be keep your kids up even on school nights, not only is a tired kid a grumpy kid, they are also not developing mentally or physical because of lack of sleep.   If you are on holiday with young children either eat early or get a sitter. That way people who have worked hard all year to go on holiday, Have a few drinks and a relaxing meal can. And hey, your kids might even grow up to be well adjusted responsible adults too! In short, if you have kids don’t inflict them on other people. Pubs, bars and restaurants should be kid free in the evenings THEY SHOULD BE IN BED
lucy		You seem to assume that I want a free-for-all for kids, everywhere, all day and all night, and that I want this so I can do what the hell I like and have a social life. I just want some leeway and acceptance for well behaved children.  Where do I say here that children shouldn’t or don’t sleep enough?  My kids get all the sleep they need, they always have, since they were babies, as do most Portuguese children. They also know how to behave in public.
Carla		Ron, bed is at night, not evening! if they are tired they will sleep. it’s a holiday, you can go to bed at 9pm and sleep 12 hours to 9am, perfect isn’t it? no need to go to bed at 7 when the sun is shining brightly and it’s the best time of the day. besides on hot countries, on holiday you will usually sleep between 1 and 3 or 4 pm because it’s too hot…
Mandi		Oh, I couldn’t agree more. Yet another thing our adopted countries have in common. Great climate, looming financial ruin and now child-friendliness! I’m a proud loud Brit but that’s one aspect of Greece I’ve been happy to adopt.
Mandi		Oh, and Ron, I think part of the point Lucy is trying to make is that she and her husband WANT to spend time with their children, rather than fobbing them off on a sitter so they can have a social life. And I am sure that her girls are perfectly well behaved when out with Mum and Dad, because they have learned the right way to act. It’s kids that are never taken out that tend to play up in restaurants etc.
Nuno		Sooooo…. Ron, do you consider yourself well adjusted? I see some inner anger on your comment. Did you felt left aside by your mum and dad, while they had social life? If you have children, how much time you spent with them after work… or you don’t spend any time with them? Do you help them with their homework, they have tasks assigned at home (laundry, dishes) or they’re just another being lying around the house?
Nuno		This is an analogy, ok? You get a dog, a young puppy, and you lock it in a cage, without love and caring. One day you go out with him, because you look cool holding a dog. Meanwhile you want to show some tricks he can do… if you don’t train a dog, if you don’t establish some sort of connection with it, he just don’t do any trick! With childrens it’s the same way, if they haven’t got the “training” to be well behaved, they just don’t know-how! Sure, if you remove the children of the problem, there’s no problem then! That’s the easy way out! When they grow up, with luck they’ll be well adjusted persons, if they’re smart, they won’t repeat the sames mistakes of theirs fathers… my 2cents
Julie Oakley		Oh I so agree with you Lucy. And 7 o’cock is a ridiculously early cut-off point for a family on holiday. I remember taking my very young children out for a meal to a local restaurant and an elderly couple sitting at the next table horrified to see that their evening out was going to be spoiled by a family of 4 adults, 3 small children and a baby. I’m glad to say that the children did us proud. They were charming, funny, delightful and thoroughly enjoyed their proper restaurant food. By the end of the evening the children had completely won over the couple. Of course that doesn’t happen every time, but how is the next generation going to learn if they don’t get to practice?
lucy		Exactly that.
looby		I agree with Julie – a 7 o’cock cut off is one thing I hope never to go through again.
John B		@Ron – have you actually evey been to Portugal? Have you ever been to lunch with a Portugese family – all five generations of them? Unless you have seen that way of life you have no idea how shockingly badly children are treated in the UK.   @Lucy – wonderful post – it should be in all the newspapers in the land.
lucy		John, thank you!
Jane		I take my small children to restaurants here in England with no trouble at all. They also stay up pretty late (as do many of my friends’ children – especially in the holidays) and I’ve never seen anyone raise their eyebrows at this. In fact, most of the children in our village stay up way past 7 o’clock (even during term time). I spent 3 years teaching in Portugal and the children were often tired and grumpy by 5:30pm when they came to my class… I must admit that, generally speaking, I didn’t find them fantastically well behaved when out and about either. Large family get-togethers are also common in England in my experience, often going on late into the evening. I guess it must depend on which circles you move in and where you live – I don’t think it’s a clear-cut country/cultural difference.